Help!! timing chain issues

[eden610]

Newbie here, I just recently changed my timing chain. I bought a Cloyes kit with chain, guides and cam sprockets. The tensioner guide plastic was loose, not sure if it is the problem.
I installed sprockets with marks in right place, 10, 2 and 5 o,clock. keyway at 12 with engine being at an angle. rotated engine a couple of times to make sure all seemed clear. put back together fired it up and when engine first starts sound good, then after it warms up i start to hear a rattle noise and it is not a rhythmic. could it be the guide or one of the sprockets? Rpm's sound good engine idles good. did quick up road and plenty of power, no codes.

also, I didn't replace balance chain. it seems tight except below tensioner at the crankshaft, there is play when i push down on it at that spot.

 

[Uluz2a6]

Did the the old timing chain guides fail? I ask because parts of the old guides could have gotten lodged in the oil pump pressure release valve. The n when it sits for a time, all the oil bleeds out and until pressure returns, you have chatter.

 

[eden610]

thanks for the reply, but no the guides were fine. I did tear it down and started over. The upper guide was leaning on chain and had rub marks, Course that was not it. tensioner was reset and everything was reinstalled, engine seem to rotate fine. closed it up. crank engine. engine idled fine. run RPM's up to about 4000 seem ok. engine got warm sound came back. New actuators (cam sprockets), guides, chain.
Iam at a lost. maybe one of the new sprockets is bad, don't really know.

 

[corvairbob]

for one did you replace the phasers? they fails and can cause that symptom. also if you had worn guides you got plastic in the oil pickup and did you double check the oil sprayer located at the lower end that points to the front of the engine and sprays oil on the front guide and chain? and check to make sure there was no plastic stuck in the oil return at the bottom of the chain cavity?

and did you change the cam tensioner and do the correct can tensioner release procedure? that can cause that

did you take out the phaser solenoid valves on the top and clean the screens

photos under the crank cavity that can get clogged with plastic parts. the oil pick up and the plastid that was in the oil pickup. and

also the phasers exhaust left and intake right

 

[eden610]

for one did you replace the phasers? they fails and can cause that symptom. also if you had worn guides you got plastic in the oil pickup and did you double check the oil sprayer located at the lower end that points to the front of the engine and sprays oil on the front guide and chain? and check to make sure there was no plastic stuck in the oil return at the bottom of the chain cavity?

and did you change the cam tensioner and do the correct can tensioner release procedure? that can cause that

did you take out the phaser solenoid valves on the top and clean the screens

photos under the crank cavity that can get clogged with plastic parts. the oil pick up and the plastid that was in the oil pickup. and

also the phasers exhaust left and intake right

I bought a Cloyes kit 9-4201SAVVT1. chain, guides, crankshaft gear, spay oiler, 2 actuators phasers, tensioner and 2 solenoids. The old guides were intact, no broken pieces. installed all new pieces per service manual and a boat load of videos.
tapped the tensioner, saw the chain get snug and rotated the crank 3 or four time and it seems fine with no resistance. even shined flashlight on chain as my son rotated engine, could not see anything touching the chain.
I did this whole procedure twice with no luck getting rid of noise. drove it about 20miles and the engine runs fine. just the grinding/squawking noise like something is rubbing. when i first crank it cold there is no noise, as the engine warms up it shows. maybe a bad phaser right out of the box??

 

[corvairbob]

it is hard to believe you got a bad phaser. and being you changed everything and providing you did not see anything in the oil return under the crank you may be ok, with that part of the repair.

did you re adjust the balancer shaft chain by any chance.

are you getting any codes?

tell us did it make this noise before the repair, or was the engine so noisey that you could not tell?

can you hear the noise with the engine running when warm under the hood at idle? and if so can to tell what side it may be coming from? timing side or trans side?

do you know how to stick an engine to try and locate a noise? put a stick a long screw driver or if you have to your ear or a stethoscope and sound out the area the noise may be located? lots of YT on how to do that search locating an engine noise with a stick the others will show up in that search.

it is possible your have a water pump failing or maybe the serpentine belt tensioner failing or even the alt bearings or a/c. i believe the a/c is a separate belt so it it is and for s&g take that off and drive it and see it the noise goes away. if not take the serpentine belt off after it gets warm and starts making that noise and rotate those parts and feel for a lose bearing or one that does not turn freely and easy. there are lots pf YT showing how to do that also search how to find a bad serpentine tensioner bearing and the other parts will be in that search.

good luck to you and keep us posted.

 

[eden610]

Thanks for replying.
I did not mess with the balancer chain. Should I?? everything seemed ok on it. guides looked good. chain seemed ok.
In the beginning when this all started there was a ticking/tapping noise. This is what lead me to believe timing chain and started this. last year i had put new solenoids.
before i did any removal of timing chain I pulled valve cover and plugs. I hand rotated engine a couple of times watching chain. As i rotated the engine, between the two phasers the chain would take a BIG dip, like one of the phasers was unlocked. After new install the BIG dip was gone.
Has only one belt and i put new one.

I have a 18" screwdriver and did the old stick trick. It is coming from that area. The water pump is part of the balance chain and the noise is closer to it but not sure.
No codes. I did pull each wiring to solenoids one at a time to maybe see if that would give a clue. nothing, did get codes for each but they went away when i reattached.

Man.... one thing leads to another. Hate to keep throwing guess money at it and yet don't want to pay the outrageous mechanic prices. Most are rip-offs and today's times hard to find a decent/honest one.
I guess the game must go on.

 

[corvairbob]

thanks for getting back. that test with the cam cover off and seeing the chain go slack told you the chain was stretched.

try to get that long screwdriver down by the water pump and listen. it may be the pump but only the stick test will tell. you can change that out without taking it all apart but it will be harder. but first do these other tests as they are easier and not quite a s costly other than time.

you should have reset the tension on the balancers if for no other reason than you were there already. if the timing chain stretched the balance chain stretched. how ever if that is the issue i would leave it go and just ignore it as it will not really cause an issue other than annoy you

if your up to it you can take the cam cover off, if the ear test fails to show the water pump and see if by chance one of the rockers got lose. you may be able to do that ear tet with the cover off but i can't recall now

did that screwdriver test happen to show any noise from the alt? a/c? of the serpentine belt tensioner?


by any chance did you do a compression test. as you could have a sticking valve when it warms up and that can be the ticking, but not any grinding or scraping. this engine has cam lifters and one may have collapsed as well they can be a bit worn.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,2017,equinox,2.4l+l4,3434314,engine,valve+lifter,5548

here is one more for testing and adjusting the 2.4 valves
https://www.700r4transmissionhq.com/chevy-equinox-lifter-tick-diagnosis/

this link is for the oil flow in those heads for you to review for valve train noise? https://www.engineprofessional.com/TB/TB120417-1.pdf

it is a lot to take in but because you had worn timing chain guides you may have got some plastic into the oil system. if you took out the phaser solenoids and found junk on the screen that can be in the head cam follower lifters or that orifice in the head going to them.


this is about all i can think of for now and a lot to digest. good luck and keep us in the loop

 

[wneumann2]

I recently replaced the timing chain on my 2012 Equinox with a Cloyes kit and have the exact same issue you do. It sounds smooth when it starts up, but once it warms up, ESPECIALLY when it is in Drive or Reverse, it rattles and runs kind of rough. My original issue was timing chain noise due to a failed tensioner, so I replaced the timing chain, guides, timing chain tensioner, and the balance chain tensioner as preventative maintenance. Balance chain otherwise looks fine, although who knows if it's stretched. I did not replace the phasers, but that's because there is no play in them. @eden610 does your noise become louder in Drive and Reverse?

 

[eden610]

I recently replaced the timing chain on my 2012 Equinox with a Cloyes kit and have the exact same issue you do. It sounds smooth when it starts up, but once it warms up, ESPECIALLY when it is in Drive or Reverse, it rattles and runs kind of rough. My original issue was timing chain noise due to a failed tensioner, so I replaced the timing chain, guides, timing chain tensioner, and the balance chain tensioner as preventative maintenance. Balance chain otherwise looks fine, although who knows if it's stretched. I did not replace the phasers, but that's because there is no play in them. @eden610 does your noise become louder in Drive and Reverse?

yes, it is louder when in drive and in reverse. Mine runs good though. engine sounds does good.
when it sits idle the sound isn't that loud and almost goes away after a few minutes. When i start out to drive it seems to get louder and when i step on gas a little seems to get somewhat quieter but doesnt go away. haven't had a chance to do anything else yet. i work on the road, so its weekends when i can do anything. not sure what im going to do though.

 

[corvairbob]

so thinking outside the box a bit if it is louder whne the engine is under a load could this be exhaust related?

 

[wneumann2]

Gotcha, sounds like we both have the same issue then. Will let you know any updates on mine too. My next steps are probably to replace the balance chain and sprockets just in case, replace the phasers and other timing chains sprockets, and see if any of that resolves it. @corvairbob I thought of that too, but since it only happens when warm, I would guess probably not?

 

[wneumann2]

Update: The issue is fixed, although now there is the slightest whining noise that changes with engine RPM. It may be completely normal though... almost imperceptible. Here's what I did since last post:
1. Replaced both cam phasers and lower timing chain sprocket
2. Replaced balance chain as well as all 3 balance chain sprockets plus chain guides. Chain was noticeably snugger afterwards. I also replaced the sprockets with the new Cloyes design which doesn't have the OEM cushion rings, which could have been the source of the noise I suppose.
3. Replaced timing chain oil sprayer
4. Thoroughly cleaned out PCV orifice.

No idea which of these changes fixed the issue, but I will say it runs smoother than it ever has.